Apr
27
I Forgive You
Posted in: Church Planting, NNCCAt the National New Church Conference Thursday, a leader I greatly respect for what he’s done in the area he’s in, stepped onto his platform and made a misinformed, prejudiced remark concerning a video that had just played. I didn’t appreciate it whatsoever, and immediately lost all respect I had for him. I walked out on his session. Maybe that was overreacting, I don’t know. But all I could think about was what Stetzer had said not even a day earlier: we express our loss of confidence in the gospel when we demean others that preach the gospel. That being said, I still forgive you, even though you’ll never read this.
I think I know the comment that you are talking about. If it is the same one I myself was very saddened by it too, especially in response to a VIDEO, where a guy doesn’t have a chance to defend himself. Well, I guess that is why we need the gospel.
I must have missed it.
May I state my “accusatorial” premise so as not to be cagey! I sense your allegiance to Driscoll was more at work than a fair analysis of Hybels remarks causing you to walk out.
I too heard Driscoll’s video and Hybels remarks. Having heard Hybels many times I knew his character would force him to comment on the video.
I am in no way “unbiased” but I believe I hold the same theological view as Driscoll on men in leadership which would put me in opposition to Hybels. That being said I would have responded the same way as Hybels.
Driscoll’s over emphasis on men at the expense of women (i.e. Jesus didn’t wear a dress, etc) seem to violate Stetzer’s idea of counting all in the fight for the kingdom as friends and worthy of respect.
I don’t know if I disagreed with the theme that Driscoll used but as has been his history, the way he said it brought a tone that seemed to me to devalue the contribution of women to the Kingdom. I was surprised that the conference showed the video.
Surely someone with Mark Driscoll’s incredible mind and speaking skills could find a way to challenge men to a kingdom call without seeming to devalue the contribution of women to the kingdom.
Roy:
First of all, thank you for your comments and reading the blog. I don’t think Driscoll had overemphasized men in this video, though he does, on occasion, say things more over-the-top than he should. The theme, by the way, was taken from Ephesians, which leads to my comment on your last paragraph. I think the same would’ve been said about Paul. He was seen (and still is) as “devaluing” women in the Kingdom, when in fact he is simply lifting men to the standard they should be at. But to each his own, I guess. Either way, I also think that this conversation (the Driscoll-Hybels thing) is way out of proportion. Grace to you,
Derek.
Derek,
Well said brother. He did not even have to comment. Because he did, we made a last minute decision not to hand out the video of that talk by Mark. That in and of itself may not seem like a big deal, but Scott from Acts 29 network, worked with me for the entire conference on the logistics of handing out the video. What people do not know is that because of BH ’s comment, a great little brochure about Acts 29 Church Planting Network did not get handed out either. IT did not arrive in time for us to stick it in the bags everyone got. So we planned to hand out the brochure with the video. Acts 29 and Mars Hill spent literally thousands of dollars of money given by donations that went to waste because of one thoughtless and needless comment.
What a pathetic waste.
Henry Judy
www.lifepointchurch.tv
Yes, I’m aware. Very sad waste of the kingdom’s resources….
Isn’t it certainly appropriate for Bill to make the comment? It’s within his right and freedom as it was within Mark’s right to share his perspective. I guess I just don’t understand why the Acts 29 brochure and Mark Driscoll video was not handed out.
I’d be pissed if I were Driscoll and Acts 29 folks. Why is it that we can’t live with a little controversy in the Kingdom. Does anyone really believe that when Jesus assembled the first CHURCH Plant team there wasn’t some tension- a terriorist and a tax collector! Jesus as John Stott reminds us was a “Controversialist.”
I’d love to get the video other than Youtube. In fact is there a place we can buy it? Despite it, “in my opinion” being over the top with a little explanation it was a great concept and has tremendous value. Maybe we could reimburse Mars Hill a little for their efforts.
Travis: It was certainly within his right to make the comment, but I don’t think it was appropriate, considering the circumstances, the environment, and his responsibility. Plus, Mark was not even in the building and didn’t really address females in the ministry at all, he simply made a comment that men need to step up, which is true no matter where you stand on male-female complementarianism, egalitarianism, etc.
Roy: I would’ve been mad too. But in response to your other question, (this is not to be adversarial, but to raise a question) just because there is controversy, does that mean it belongs in the Kingdom?
I also saw the video on Mark’s blog…but I think it was a link to the YouTube vid.
Grace to you,
Derek
First, let me say walking out and loss of respect for someone is a sign of insecurity and false measurement in one’s leadership. I hope in your future of church planting this is not how you choose to handle aggravating situations or circumstances. Furthermore, we live, learn and love a guy who gave away his love, respect and trust freely. So, ask yourself – or selves for that matter - what we are teaching when we say we have “lost respect for someone, due to their actions.” Honestly, it’s really not for you to have any say who gets or merits respect from you, when you submit to the value giver – Jesus. Lastly, and more importantly, these Don Imus-esque issues and the negative statements about Driscoll and Hybels are partial reasons why the disconnected actively have to work to see the difference and love Christ-followers share for one another.
I think it’s sad that so many folks seem to now “only” be discussing this issue.
Also, I understand your frustration, but to say you lost “all” respect because of one statement seems rather harsh and not the Christ-way.
I do think you have a right to be frustrated and upset.
I think the video was great-but I do wonder if the content was good fit with NNCC-being an interdenomonational event and all.
Also, I attended Mars Hill, I love Driscoll and respect him and MH. But Driscoll has been really harsh and he has said some pretty mean things about people.
BTW-Did you lose respect for Piper when he ripped Driscoll after Driscoll left the conference last year?
Somehow I hope God gets glory and we as the church continue to walk in love, forgiveness and grace and we also learn how to do a better job of communicating to one another.
Shalom
Chris:
You (and others I’ve had conversations with) are absolutely right on everything (though I do think the video’s content was plenty appropriate) Driscoll has said some pretty nasty things before, but he is growing in the Gospel, and his blog response is evidence of this I think. As to Piper’s berating of Driscoll, you’re right. I admired Piper for doing so, but I was unsure that he should’ve done it publicly. (I’m unaware if he’d spoken to Mark before, so couldn’t make a good call on it)
I agree with you that God should get glory out of this, and that the Church should be restored by Christ to show His light to the world.
Thank you brother.
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