Jan
25
Isn’t She Beautiful?
Posted in: GeneralIsn’t She Beautiful is a conference on the church as a whole, put on by Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, MI. Rob Bell, while I’m not a huge fan of his theology, did have a a pretty good quote:
The church is the only organization that exists for the benefit of its non-members.
While not entirely true (it’s not the only charitable organization), it makes you think nonetheless. You can check out more of the conference here: Isn’t She Beautiful
What exactly about Rob’s theology troubles you?
Pastor Bell is very inclusive as far as salvation is concerned. Salvation boils down to this: repentance and confessed belief. Rob seems to extrapolate beyond that. He also takes hell too metaphorically. It’s almost as if he doesn’t believe in it at all. Don’t get me wrong, I love his ideas on the church, and what it should be doing in the world. But if we’re just to be a “nice organization”, what makes us different than the Red Cross?
We have a message, and it’s not a pretty message. We’re all evil. But God isn’t. And He died for us, so that we can be with him. Everything else is secondary, including our works on earth. I’ve never heard Rob explain the Gospel clearly, in over a year of listening to his teaching (which I do). The closest was his Easter message of last year, but even then he pussyfooted around it.
I would agree with you mostly on those things. I don’t think he takes hell to metaphorically though, having talked to him personally. He seems to want to push the metaphorical limit on that because he is upset that when people present the gospel to people they present it to get them “saved” from hell and then they deal with the other issues (addcition, poverty, homelessness) as secondary issues. He seems to see deliverace from those hells as part of the total package.
As far as salvation is concerned, I struggle with him on that one. I will tell you from a conversation that he and I had one time some kind of thought provoking. I asked him if he believed jesus when he said “no one comes to the father but by me” and he said yes, but then said “but who defines what by me means? Do we decide that or do we take Jesus at his word when he says that He is the judge and that we should not presume to be the judge.” So I don’t see it as really an inclusive vision, but instead a humbe vision that says “we profess faith, but beyond that lay God’s mystery”. I personally think that salvation is clearer than that, and I believe that writers like Paul defined for us what “by me” meant. I just think Rob struggles with that.
I would have to disagree with you on the nice organization analogy though. I think that it is clear from the Gospels that Jesus always leaned towards the marginalized. Sure he cares for “the sinner” which we all are, but there are those of us (like me and my porn addiction) who have lived in, and thru hell to get to Jesus. And because we were marginalized into a living Hell, I believe Jesus made a clear point in his life that those who would choose to follow him, choose to traverse into those living hells for people like me.
The problem with focusing on the “marginalized” is this: everyone is marginalized. That’s what Jesus came to show. He showed that everyone was marginalized from God. There is the kingdom of God, and everyone else is outside of that, apart from Jesus. The poor, homeless person who doesn’t know Jesus is just as marginalized as the wealthy suburbanite who doesn’t know Jesus. The church is called to minister to both equally, not to favor one over the other. God has no favorites, neither should His bride.
I think that the common mistake that the “emergent” church makes is that they overcompensate for past evils of the church. In the past, the Church has forgotten the poor. So now they are taking “marginalized” to mean just the poor. It’s overcompensation, and in return, causes sin in the other way; we’re forgetting the wealthy who need Christ.
Harmony Church will minister to all equally. Poor, rich, middle class; white, black, brown; urban, suburban, rural. We will minister to the marginalized, as defined in Romans 3:23: ALL have fallen short, and are at the wayside of God’s glory.
I agree with you on the overcompensation idea pretty much. I have frustrated over the bent towards “social justice” as the “mission”. However, I would point out that while it is true that we are all marginalized in terms or being marginalized as a sinner apart from God, we are not marginalized from the society and people in the same way. Yes everyone is a sinner, but not everyone is homeless, addicted to crack, hungry, sick, or dying.
True we are called to minister to everyone with the good news of salvation. But the “sinner” who is hungry not only needs salvation, but a bowl of soup as well.
The quote about the church being for those who are not yet members is a quote from Geoffrey Fisher, who has Archbishop of Canterbury in the inter-war years.
Recusant: Thanks for the citation! I took the quote from live notes of the conference. Seems like nothing Rob originally said really struck my fancy then…
I think that you are looking at the salvation session Rob did from a very limited perspective. Yes, repentance and acceptance are a part of salvations story, but there are other aspects… If you look at the christian life there are many different stops along the way, the examples that Rob uses are pointing this out, to the man who is forgiven because his friends believed, Jesus sees that even if he doesn’t yet believe, the company he keeps are firm believers if he continues journeying with them he will be fine. Is it what we say yes at a point we have to accept say to God we accept his gift a crucial part of the dialogue, is it something we do, yes Zacheus couldn’t possibly have comprehended the journey he was about to take and doing something, giving his money to the poor was a physical manifestation of it.
I don’t think that Salvation is any one of these single ideas myself but rather each of them and more throughout your lifetime..
A question I have is what are yuor thoughts on salvation of the world, as they will add further insight into your theology of hell.
Kerr
great ideas are processed through dialogue
Kerr: Thanks for your comment, first of all. Second, I’m going to do a whole post on salvation, as soon as I get some time later today after I teach. I think that a lot of people confuse salvation of the individual with redemption as a whole. I’ll explain in my post. Love you and grace to you. Stay tuned.
[…] in the comments section of the “Isn’t She Beautiful” post from January 25th (link). It stemmed from my dislike of Rob Bell’s theology, specifically his expressed views on […]
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